Wed 20 Sep 2006
A pile of skateboarders showed up for the design input meeting this evening at Round Rock’s Clay Madsen recreation center. So many viewpoints were present that it was surprising that we all spoke the same language. Micah Shapiro from Grindline tried to run the meeting and gather the crowd’s input on what elements should be present in the Round Rock public skatepark.
He began the meeting with a screening of Grindline’s forthcoming DVD which may have bored street skaters with its heavy bowl content. The South Jordan section popped off the projection for these skaters and at least one person wanted to know more about that park. Afterwards, Micah ran through a powerpoint presentation describing the value of concrete and how they build these skateparks.
Finally, skaters were urged to put pen to paper and illustrate what they wanted to see in this skatepark. The main factor limiting the design of the park is the budget. Obviously, skaters want everything and then some in the skatepark, all catering to their specific tastes. Some skaters think a plaza is ideal while others would love a flow basin or a big bowl, so conflict abounds. Sure, $390,000 sounds like a lot of money that could buy everything everyone wants, it really won’t. It’s the designer’s role to find a compromise between these competing demands that makes the most effective use of the budget.
It seemed like several skaters left the meeting frustrated that their own visions might not be possible within Round Rock’s first skatepark. I’m guessing that their impression is that they weren’t being listened to at the design input meeting. The absolute reality of the matter is that this meeting was the least significant meeting for skaters to attend if they want to have an impact on what goes into a public skatepark. The most important meetings for influencing what can be built were the ones over the past year where Darrell and I begged skaters to show up and plead the case for Round Rock to support skateboarding.
That being said, Round Rock has increased the Clay Madsen skatepark budget by $200,000 and RR PARD is saying it wants to build another skatepark in Pioneer Park somewhere nestled amongst its 20 baseball fields at some future date. I do think the Clay Madsen skatepark project is headed for success, though, and when completed will be filled with skaters. Like Mabel Davis, there will be those who will criticize its shortcomings. They’ll freely cite this and that as reasons why it’s a crummy facility. And hopefully, they’ll be able to hammer some sense into the skaters who regularly drive in from San Antonio to skate it.
September 21st, 2006 at 2:38 am
Seth I like the snarky ending, watching a little too much Colbert Report?
September 21st, 2006 at 6:02 am
OBSERVATIONS ON PERSUASION AND LOBBYING
We gotta attack on the budget issue. The amount of money that is allocated in a budget for a particular activity is a direct reflection of political will. (I work in government, I see it all the time).
The best approach has two components: (1) to contact the most powerful and/or influential or persuasive people in Round Rock and get them to lobby on behalf of a LARGE skatepark. (2) to create your own press team. Local news is highly influenced by press releases in which the issues are already framed in the correct language.
Rhetorical Elements:
(1) OPTIMISM: New Round Rock state-of-the art facility will
(a) provide atheletic outlet for area youth
(b) attract skateboard industry dollars (e.g. Etnies Tour) and media exposure to Round Rock on ESPN
(c) accomodate ALL skill levels–including beginners.
(d) showcase Round Rock’s ingenuity and civic pride.
(e) be one of the LARGEST in Texas, bigger than Allen TX, Abilene, Taylor, and Ingleside.
(2) FAMILY. The term “family” is arguably the most politically persuasive word in American English. [On the flip side, government cares very little for "troubled" teens, marginalized 20something males, etc.] Therefore the argument of ‘get the teens off the streets’ tends to give you the lowest common denomenator skatepark (as pacification) plus fences and lots of rules. The better argument is ‘provides family entertainment.’
(3) TESTIMONIALS. Parents, teachers, city council members, (and oh yeah, skaters), have had wonderful experiences in other cities. Press release should have ready-to-use quotations and sources.
I’m sure some of this has been done loads of times already. SPAUSA.ORG etc. etc.
anyway. my 2 cents. good luck.
September 21st, 2006 at 6:41 am
Thanks Seth and Darrell this project sounds really exciting. Honestly with the budget being split in half for street and vert I do not see what the discontentment is at all. I am excited to see the plans!!
September 21st, 2006 at 9:44 am
i hope they make that 5ft vert ramp.
September 21st, 2006 at 10:41 am
cut these kids some slack, you must have forgotten when you didnt know how to control your balance. we all used to keep our trucks butthole tight{so when you did finally land that funker flip, all you had to do was keep the from rolling out}and walk to the skate spot, right?????? i say give them plenty of flat ground, it’s cheap. if i had my way, every young boy in round rock would be gathered in one place just sweating, shirtless, pants sagging, skating thier hearts out…..and me there to pat them on the ass for each flat land trick landed. just give them time, they will loosen up and come to the bowl, and i’ll be the first one behind them waiting my turn.
September 21st, 2006 at 12:18 pm
In case anyone is wondering, Grindline expects to break ground mid-October. Rabbi is expected to be the foreman.
September 21st, 2006 at 4:52 pm
Darrell’s really been busting ass on this thing for a long time. His meeting with the Mayor might have been a big help in getting the budget upped so much. Still nervous that Grindline is at the helm of this one too.
September 22nd, 2006 at 2:19 am
fireskill– I appreciate the input about the budget. We did, or at least attempted, every single thing you’ve mentioned here for nearly two years (I don’t have time to go into details). Because of our efforts, the budget was nearly *quadrupled* and the park will be concrete.
Round Rock is notoriously fiscally conservative, so going from a $110K modular skatepark to a $390K concrete park was no small accomplishment. I’m extremely satisfied and am already looking forward to other parks in the area. Because of our involvement, RR has now *officially* planned for an even larger skatepark in Old Settler’s Park near Dell Diamond (no financing yet though). I’m convinced that the success of the first park help greatly in getting the second park built bigger, better and sooner.
There’s a lot of momentum right now…here’s a list of more area parks in planning that I’m aware of–
- A 2nd Austin city skatepark
- Travis county skatepark near Pflugerville (funding approved last year)
- Williamson county skatepark (funding will be voted on Nov. 2006, so VOTE if you can).
- Fern Bluff MUD skatepark (early planning stages).
- Austin neighborhood skatespot project (Seth has details).
- Leander skatepark (Benbrook Ranch park). Scheduled construction mid-2007.
- ???
September 22nd, 2006 at 4:32 am
Great articles lately, and awesome feedback/comments. Thanks Seth and all the ASN readers.
Don’t forget to add San Marcos to that list, we have our funding, have phase one designed/enginered, going out for bid as we type, and hope to break ground at the end of this year…plans here
http://www.sposm.org
Keep up the good fight
September 22nd, 2006 at 5:27 am
Sounds awesome Darrell, I know you guys have done a ton of work.
I think the neighborhood skatespot concept kicks ass.
I know Seth and others have been scoping things out for a long time, but here are Parks I would just throw out as suggestions because of location. (It would be better if they already have concrete slabs which aren’t being used as basketball courts.)
The list of City of Austin parks is right here:
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/parks/parkdirectory.htm
Eastwoods (University Area)
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/parks/parkmaps/images/eastwoods.jpg
Adams-Hemphill (University Area)
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/parks/parkmaps/images/adams_hemphill.jpg
Beverly S. Sheffield Northwest District Park
[Very central-north location, near Mopac, Anderson, Burnet. ]
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/parks/parkmaps/images/beverly_s_scheffield_northwest.jpg
Ramsey Park. [Burnet, 43rd area. Not next to an Elementary School]
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/parks/parkmaps/images/ramsey.jpg
Tanglewood [183, Spicewood Springs. For all the suburban skaters]
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/parks/parkmaps/images/tanglewood.jpg
Walnut Creek / Gracywoods [Parmer, Metric, Braker area is close to Northridge ACC, neighborhoods, and big employers. Walnut Creek also has a swimming pool; skate & swim in the summer.]
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/parks/parkmaps/images/walnut_creek_park.jpg
Waterloo Park [15th st. Downtown!]
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/parks/parkmaps/images/waterloo.jpg
September 23rd, 2006 at 9:00 am
yeah, go with Beverly S. Sheffield, that way you can go swimming afterwards.
October 2nd, 2006 at 1:45 pm
….just went out to Lakeway skatepark for the first time today, and it pissed me off.
Why is there a HANDRAIL WHICH POINTS DIRECTLY AT AN IRON FENCE?
(Somebody had to put padding on the fence just so skaters wouldn’t knock themselves out).
I try to stay positive. But, we cannot let whoever did that screw up again.
October 2nd, 2006 at 2:34 pm
You didn’t notice that real nice peanut shaped bowl up there? Did you even try to skate it?
October 2nd, 2006 at 4:44 pm
sorry i went off there, no question the bowl is awesome and there are some cool lines with the mini-basin…. but the goal has to be perfection in both bowl and street. after 20 years of skatepark street courses and hundreds if not thousands of videos with street skating, park design should be an art by now. not experimenting then saying “hey guys it’s better than what you had before!”
just sit down and watch the street session and see if it flows. one of the ledges and both rails point to nowhere. which means every time someone pulls a trick, they have to jump off their board and run to a stop. it’s like having a sweet pool except one side has a big kink or crack at the bottom. almost perfect but seriously problematic.
the early 90s street course formula was: 6′ to 8′ tall flat bank (trannied out at the bottom) to pyramid with grindbox to another flat bank, quarter, or vert wall. the design definitely became routine (some might say boring?). BUT it is still highly effective for street sessions because the banks or quarters on each side both accelerate and decelerate speed–take a look at the current skatepark of austin street course; the multi-elevation dilemma is solved by having very large dropin banks/quarter at the bottom. imagine if SOA just had 4′ tall mellow quarters at the bottom; it would make the whole thing a virtual failure.
i just went to the grindline page and clicked almost every park link. many of the bowl and tranny designs are brilliant. but, with some exceptions, the street designs are uninspired, and basically look like an afterthought.
look at the corpus christi link. it has some desired elements like rails, stair ledges, manual pads. BUT, there are some serious speed control problems. if someone hits the rail on the left, what do they do with their speed? maybe lean hard and turn, or more likely jump off their board. the bottom right of the design is equally lacking b/c there is nothing there. why not some hipped banks or something?
basins are cool because they control speed. you drop in one side, hit a trick in the middle, then use the opposite bank to slow down or turn around. if you ever see someone having to jump off and run out to slow down, something is not designed right.
i’m not saying all this just to complain. i’m saying it because i’m seeing evidence of something that is not working to its full potential. if grindline does not do the BEST street designs, they should not be hired. split the job. let them do the bowl and let somebody else do street.
i started skating in 1986. i have a full time professional job in an office which makes me appreciate every drop of time i have outside. i highly appreciate guys like seth, jared, and everybody who does a ton of work to make stuff happen.
October 2nd, 2006 at 6:00 pm
Great analysis, Fireskill.
Seth
October 3rd, 2006 at 4:56 am
Fireskill– You’re preaching to the choir here about the Lakeway “street” course. Handrails should never go into steel fences and poles. The current plan for Round Rock is to have GL build the bowl area and local contractors build the street area. GL is going to be offering a master plan design of both bowl and street this week. There will be one more design input meeting this week so skaters can critique it and ask for changes if necessary. I’ll let everyone know the time and date.
BTW– I just heard that Grindline is supposed to break ground on the bowl area Oct 16. Woo Hoo!
October 3rd, 2006 at 5:22 am
well that’s cool. i will try to make it to that meeting. i’d also like to check out their dvd.
does anyone ever bring three-dimensional scaled models of parks…. (like city planners /architects do?) it may seem stupid with all the photos, videos, and drawings we have, but it could be very cool. anyone know any architect model builders who do that as their job? i used to know a guy who worked full time at ibm building physical models of computers and parts(out of foam, clay, etc.) sorry if i’m preaching to the choir again and that’s all covered.
October 3rd, 2006 at 9:53 am
Don’t won’t about preaching here…your previous thoughts and analysis are well-taken and appreciated. I just wanted to assure you that we are concerned about the final outcome of this skatepark as much as you are. A 3-D model of a skatepark would actually be pretty cool, but those things take time and money, which is probably why I don’t believe it’s done very often.
October 3rd, 2006 at 11:11 am
Has anyone here ever talked to Place to Ride Skateparks?
http://www.ptrskate.com/companyProfile.php
They do three-dimensional clay models….
October 4th, 2006 at 12:34 pm
Darrell,
Who is actually supervising the build of the street course? Who do i need to contact to be involved with this?
October 4th, 2006 at 7:37 pm
in the interest of clarity, it should be pointed out that the handrail into the fence was the city’s fault, not grindline’s. there are many other faults at lakeway that can be blamed on them, but they built that rail thinking there would be no fence, and also thinking they would be able to build out further over the sidewalk. the city told them no, and then after they left town, the city put up the fence. so blame lakeway for that one. or the fence contractor, who probably got $30,000 or $40,000 to build that fence…
October 4th, 2006 at 8:41 pm
The city allowed the builder to stray from the blueprints, so perhaps it is the fault of the city. The city was led to believe the builder was going to deliver a better skatepark by discarding the plans. So perhaps the city was mislead by the builder.
Seth
October 10th, 2006 at 5:30 am
So, what’s the latest on the Round Rock park?
Have they approved plans?
Are you going to post them?
Thanks
October 10th, 2006 at 6:24 pm
Typical project hold-ups. I heard there was an abrupt RR PARD staffing change and there have been bouncing emails from Grindline to RR PARD.
As soon as I have something to see, I’ll post it.
Seth
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